ENGLISH - QUESTIONS TO: CARLOS LOPES Former Deputy General Secretary United Nations x African Union High Representative

“CARLOS LOPES NEVER PUTS HIS SUITCASES VERY LONG IN THE SAME PLACE. A PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CAPE TOWN, SOUTH AFRICA, THE BISSAU-GUINEAN ECONOMIST FREQUENTS ACADEMIC CIRCLES AS WELL AS THE ANTEROOMS OF AFRICAN PRESIDENTS TO WHOM HE GIVES HIS ADVICE.

THE FORMER EXECUTIVE SECRETARY OF THE UNITED NATIONS ECONOMIC COMMISSION FOR AFRICA (ECA, FROM 2012 TO 2016) IS AMONGST THE MOST PROMINENT AFRICAN VOICES.

HIS LATEST BOOK “AFRICA IN TRANSFORMATION: ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN THE AGE OF DOUBT (PALGRAVE MACMILLAN, 2019, UNTRANSLATED)” CALLS FOR A NEW SOCIAL CONTRACT WITH THE CONTINENT AND DEFENDS MORE THAN EVER AN AFRICAN INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION.” - LE MONDE

CARLOS LOPES DISCUSSED WITH LESHYPERCONSCIENTS ABOUT THE MOTIVES THAT LEAD HIM TO LEAVE THE UNITED NATIONS, THE OPPORTUNITIES DIGITAL TRANSFORMATION COULD OFFER TO AFRICAN YOUTH AND MUCH MORE…

In one of your previews interviews, you explained that you joined the, the UN in order to preserve your freedom, at the end of the eighties, you were presumed to become Bissau Guinea Minister of Finance. Over 30 years later, it's once again your thirst for freedom that that drove you to leave the UN, can you explain us your motivations ?

You have to be able to express a certain degree of intellectual courage, to be able to transform and adapt. I've never been the one to just say things that people want to hear. A few months ago I used a tweet as a provocation tool and an information tool to attract people, to read more or to discuss more about issues that matter regarding the continent. EU ambassador to the African Union actually called me a populist, as the African Unions High Representative for partnerships with Europe, that neither affects nor works with me, I have gone through this many times in my life. I left big jobs, big titles, , without any second thoughts when I thought that my capacity to say, what I want is, is being threatened.

Isn't it contradictory for an institution such as the UN, that has been established in order to promote ideals of peace and freedom on a global scalemaybe a shame for such an institution such as the UN that has been established in order to promote all those sort of ideals of peace and freedom on a global scale ?

The way officials are going to express is might be slightly different. Certain people might saythat I'm just expressing individual views. The thing is I try to be the most cautious people when I speak as an economist, I always back it up with statistics. So that makes me even more threatening for some. Institutions work with some degree of "institutional loyalty". Once you understand that, you understand that if your aren't totally aligned to official postions, you have to step back and go somewhere else.

You have always been known for your outspokenness, it even might have played in important role in your selection to occupy high ranking positions in the UN and afterwards.

Yes, in a way I do believe it. I have been lucky, but you have to have a high degree of luck because it can actually really be bad for you when you're as outspoken. My advice to the generations coming after me, is to learn how to live with the consequences of their actions, even when it's difficult to navigate sometimes.

So you believe that luck was on your side the entire time ?

I believe I have been blessed with luck, but even if I didn't have luck, I would have continued to do the same.

What are simple tips you apply on a daily basis in order to sustain that courage that young millenials can also try to apply ?

First, I'm very down to earth. Then I'm very focused on facts. I'm actually after facts, so I'm very counter intuitive, more than spiritual. Meaning I immediately question what I'm being told in inside myself. Try to see all the angles before I accept it. So sometimes it's annoying to people around me, but, that's what makes me, that's what gives me energy. So someone will come in, the restaurant will say, this brand is very good. You know, it's done with this and this method. And I don't know what it can be something as trivial as that. I immediately start, you know, thinking whether it's really true what is said, even for the most basic stuff.

What do you allow yourself to do today, that you could'nt do as head of the ECA ?

Well, in fact, I don't think that much has changed, except that I couldn't do it anymore. So I was being quite outspoken and I was saying things that were annoying, a lot of people inside the institution. I was starting to face some curtailment, not on what I was saying, but on my ability to manage the institution, because they will come with all kinds of bureaucratic difficulties and obstacles.

Would you encourage your little sisters and brothers that might have the dream one day to join high ranking positions in such institutions like the UN or the UA? Is there a real place for change?

I'm a very pragmatic person. I might go and talk to a president for example, and help Governments prepare for their negotiation with institutions like the IMF, I try to help them with my expertise in the process to obtain financial aid, to be honest they are often surprised I encourage them to seek help from these type of institutions, what I often respond is that to be critical towards something doesn't equate to not using it to your best advantage. It's the same for the careers of our brothers and sisters going to these institutions, take advantage of it, but don't lose your heart. Is it hard? It is very difficult because you will have all kinds of incentives to do the opposite, to play lip service for Africa, to just be token representation and so on. Just know that when you get get to a position, you may be treated of that sort, but use it to your advantage. Turn it around.

We are living in particular times, what is your point of view on the need for appropriation of ICT by all sectors of African economies and administrations
What would be your suggestions to achieve a real a paradigm shift?

The short answer is that it's very important in every domain actually. President Kagame said "the best ressource we have is determination because it's free, and with it we can change the world" (laughs). I believe it's true for ICT

The internet nowadays comes at 98% through submarine cables which are installed under territorial waters, by private groups, those materials ensure the transmission of our information.
Given the risks of capturing our data, is it legitimate to have concerns about the potential adverse effects of the digital tool and how should African States protect themselves against those risks?

Well, I don't think there is anything wrong that this is exploited by private companies. On the other hand, I do think that we have to create opportunities for African private companies to also be launching their submarine cables and exploiting these opportunities. And I'm also very happy with the government of Djibouti where a lot of these cables land. The opportunities of having become one of the major landing points for submarine cables is a very strategic choice made by the Government.

Concerning the optimization of the digital tool, do you believe that the strategy of African countries should be translated by an integral incorporation of services built around digital? Or, should they seek to satisfy first their primary needs in terms of health, housing and education, and then only focus on heavy investments related to digital infrastructure ?

A dual approach is key. I would also focus on the opportunity that exists to use installed capacities that are not yet commercialized, it is estimated that probably 30% of mobile operators installed capacities are not yet commercialized. So they have a reserve. I think the role of the regulator is very important because it should almost impose that this slice that is not used commercially should be used for public goods, education etc…, once again a dual approach is key.